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Supplementing with exogenous ketone esters vs. eating a ketogenic diet | Eric Verdin


[Rhonda]: What do you think of exogenous ketone
esters? Like, do you think that they’re safe? Is that something that you know about or have
thought about? [Dr. Verdin]: Well, we’ve thought about
it. We are experimenting with them as well. It is one of the central questions. It’s most of the beneficial effect that
we have seen have been with the ketogenic diet. Again, that’s very different from a high
beta-hydroxybutyrate level. And one of the remaining or at least the next
step in this whole field is really to understand what can we recapitulate with beta-hydroxybutyrate
alone, and I think we’re working actively on this and so are many other groups. The ketogenic diet itself it’s important
to realize is not an easy diet to live on. You know, I don’t mean to be diminishing
the merit… Actually, I highlight the merit of people
who are on a long-term ketogenic diet. It takes a lot of discipline. You basically cannot eat a significant amount
of carbohydrates. Many people who have been on this diet for
a long time actually tout its benefits and the fact that they feel very healthy and they
feel very present. There are a lot of brain effects linked to
ketogenic diet. Now, big question is what can we replicate
just by administering BHB, beta-hydroxybutyrate, alone. [Rhonda]: Yeah. I think that you’re absolutely right, you
know, and not to mention that with a ketogenic diet there’s also… You know, some people can’t really do them. You know, there are certain gene polymorphisms. I know there’s one in the PPAR-alpha gene
which is important for the whole process of making ketone bodies and that people have
that they actually can’t do that very well, and so it can be sort of dangerous, and they
can have inflammation. Sort of the opposite profile will happen,
you know, so it’s certainly something to consider. And then not to mention, like, you found in
your paper that you just published this year…was it last month? [Dr. Verdin]: Yeah. [Rhonda]: Yeah, last month. That you found, you know, there were multiple
changes going on. I think there was a decrease in insulin, obviously,
and IGF-1, and mTOR activity went down. And then, you know, so that’s something
you’re not gonna just get from beta-hydroxybutyrate. Maybe, we don’t know. I don’t… [Dr. Verdin]: We don’t know. I suspect, not for the mTOR part, but we compared
the ketogenic diet to a high-fat diet which was not ketogenic, which mice ate a large
amount of fat and enough carbohydrate to suppress ketogenesis. And one of the biggest difference, I think,
actually between these two was the activation of PPAR-alpha. And this is also very exciting, because that
indicates that maybe a lot of the beneficial effect that we see on the ketogenic diet come
from PPAR-alpha activation. We’ve been reading that literature. There’s quite a bit of information there
that really hasn’t been pursued as a next direction to try to dissect these effects. [Rhonda]: Because PPAR-alpha’s doing something
to the mitochondria. What’s the main… [Dr. Verdin]: It’s a key enzyme of the fasting
response, but it seems to be more highly activated in response to the ketogenic diet than to
a pure high-fat diet. [Rhonda]: What about fasting, if you compare
fasting to… [Dr. Verdin]: It is activated. We did not compare to fasting. We compared it just high-fat to…but I think
it just points to a new direction in which we can start dissecting what is the role of
PPAR-alpha in these responses.

Randall Smitham

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4 COMMENTS

  1. FMF Clips Posted on May 3, 2019 at 5:15 pm

    Watch the full episode:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qOQGBVedAQ

    FoundMyFitness episode page:
    https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/69

    More clips from this guest:
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrGxo-5Uw8gK3-DDvZcjpf1TN4xyO_isJ

    Reply
  2. Feeth Posted on January 3, 2020 at 9:35 pm

    I watched the entire episode before and I'm so glad there are people studying this subject dilligently, mostly because I'm on keto for almost a year now and it's good to know what this sort of experiment on myself could possibly lead to. Both my blood work and mood are great. One thing tho to what was told, in the beginning any diet is hard to follow, but after discovering some dozen or two sets of dishes you can actually have it's very, very simple, quick and convenient. Mainly because of the simplicity and the fact that eating once or twice a day is not a challenge, but the way it feels natural, at least to me, so I hit two birds with one stone having IF the same time. And in all seriousness, I've always had bad time exercising and improving my body composition. I only now feel and look I always wanted. Bless you both.

    Reply
  3. Tom Korte Posted on January 3, 2020 at 9:52 pm

    Good clip.
    Any information on autophagy, apoptosis, and rebuilding arthritic joints? Unrelated but many people get into keto because of arthritis.

    Reply
  4. Jenn West Posted on January 6, 2020 at 1:55 am

    I don’t suppose this could be further broken down because I’m not sure I’m understanding what he’s saying. Is he saying a high fat diet is not ketogenic when carbohydrates are present in large amounts and it does what to the mitochondria? And what is he saying about mTOR?

    I ask because I’ve been on keto for about 7 years (but not always having ketones) and I believe I’m experiencing inflammation. So it’s important to me to understand.

    Reply
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