April 5, 2020
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What Your Doctor Won’t Tell You About Keto | Dr. Ken Berry on Health Theory. The ketogenic diet.

thanks for tuning in to this episode of
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in today’s episode with dr. ken berry we discuss why your doctor is lying to you
the importance of eating ancestrally why the u.s. nutrition guidelines are
absolute garbage and the efficacy of the carnivore diet everybody welcome to hell
theory today’s guest is dr. ken berry he’s a
board certified family physician who has treated over 25,000 unique patients from
newborns to centenarians and everything in between
he’s also the author of the controversial book lies my doctor told
me a book he became obsessed with writing after realizing that much of
what he had been taught in medical school about nutrition was just flat-out
wrong after years of research and getting his own health in order through
a bespoke ketogenic approach he began challenging the medical establishment
and trying to separate fact from fiction and help his patients achieve optimal
health I want to talk about is how this all started for you being a doctor that
himself was overweight like what did that trigger in you and how did that
start this whole ball rolling so I was raised in a very poor family but a very
proud family and the parable that I grew up hearing was the parable of the
preacher who was taught in the bar and when the congregation said what are you
doing dude and he said you do as I say not as I do
and that was the defining parable of my childhood
don’t ever be that guy and so I kind of grew up with that philosophy you you you
lead by doing you lead by example and you lead the way
and so when I years into my practice I became very I was almost 300 pounds
Wow I was pre-diabetic all my inflammatory markers were getting crazy
and one day I remember I’ve been over to tie my shoe and got short of breath and
I was already starting to see the looks in inpatient rooms you know when I’d be
counseling a patient who was overweight and I’d be telling them you know the
American Diabetes Association died or join Weight Watchers or Ginny
Gregg and I kept noticing the glance down at my Dunlap I don’t know if you
know what that is or not but in the South I think I lapis when your belly
done lapped over your belt right and so I’m like yeah I can’t be that guy I
can’t I can’t go in there until you Tommy gotta lose weight man when it
looks like my water’s about to break so then what was that first step and so I
climbed up in the attic got down all my nutrition notes from from medical school
and you might envision this these you know me coming down with his back arias
tomes and stacks and it was actually about this much a small paperback book
and a half semester worth of notes and so I went through all that I’m like
maybe I forgot something right and to sum up what I was taught med school it
was a lots of whole-grain avoid saturated fat and jog and so I’m like
okay so I started doing that and I did it faithfully for a month month and a
half and gained another five or ten pounds and so at that point
doctors have this thing they always think their patients are secretly
non-compliance I got to tell you joined the gym stopped eating Cheetos but
secretly I know you’re you’re in the bedroom eating the honey bun and you’re
not getting on the treadmill right and so but the problem was I knew I had been
doing it doctor I wasn’t fooling anybody I was with me I knew that I was jogging
a mile a day and I knew I was eating zero saturated fat and eating multiple
servings of whole grains and eating lots of fresh fruit and I was gaining weight
and my numbers were getting worse and I said okay so obviously I don’t know a
damn thing about human nutrition and so I went back to the drawing board and and
kind of stepped outside of my box and started reading books that we weren’t
given in medical school and that that was kind of the beginning of it all
that’s really interesting to me that you were able to look at that and say well I
guess I don’t know or understand this so how do you stay so open minded and how
do you stay open minded now or do you I guess like you obviously have a pretty
hardcore vision of what’s working now things that work for you things that are
working for your patients how do you stay open minded now as you learn more
and more well I’m constantly reading and
researching and looking and I’m weird in the way that I’m happy to be proven
wrong I don’t have a problem that at all I’ve already been proven
wrong on my initial you know what I thought was right and so if someone
comes along with something better then I’m happy to listen because my progress
kind of followed circuitous path and so it was kind of a natural progression
from Paleo ancestral to primal to low carb high healthy fat and then
ultimately to keto and then for the last eight months I’ve been almost
exclusively carnivore and that that’s actually been for me the penultimate
step of my health I’ve never felt this good and had numbers this good alright
well we’re gonna get to that first I’ve heard you talk about how we’ve ended up
here and that’s something that I find utterly
fascinating so how did the medical establishment end up preaching with a
straight face whole grains and all of that stuff well it there are several
things that kind of came together all at the same time we had the the the
misleading research by Ansel keys and then we had all of the big food
corporations and we had all this wheat and we had all this corn and so they had
to sell that and so it’s almost like we created the perfect storm of big
medicine Big Pharma and big food all coming together all three making
billions in profit but everybody getting sicker because of it but not sicker
quickly enough for it to throw up a red flag because if I put strychnine in your
water obviously that was immediately bad right but if I just slowly poison you
and it takes 20 years nobody’s the wiser and so that’s kind of how the chronic
inflammation of the the stupid American diet has come to a head and now we have
this other great thing called the the internet right and so anybody can
virtually look up any research study and so when a doctor says all the research
shows that that you know saturated fat leads directly to heart disease now
there are people they can print out every single study that has those
keywords in it and look at it and go where I don’t see it anywhere where does
it ads I see hints of it and I say you know tiny relative risk values in
observational research but where’s the definitive study that says in this
control study we show without doubt that elites to be you eat a lot of saturated
fat you get heart disease the ends it that study doesn’t exist and so now the
cats kind of out of the bag because anybody can look this stuff up and you
don’t have to Google many words until you understand exactly what that studies
saying talk to me about questioning things so how do people and obviously
you encourage people heavily in your book to begin to question things and
understand things and be their own advocate what does that process look
like so the one thing that even I struggle with when I’m beginning a new
topic is I don’t know who the hell to listen to and you’re gonna get a lot of
conflicting voices and the good and the bad of the Internet is you can find
anything but anyone can also post anything and so you get you know a lot
of conflicting information do you have a way that you walk your patients through
how to begin to discern fact from fiction most of the time they’ve already
done the trial and error research before they get to me just because I tend to
attract that kind of patient people who are proactive who have a plan who want
to get better and then it also comes down to the N equals one of tried on
yourself and you know anybody who says oh you shouldn’t eat an all meat diet
for a month that’s that’s gonna hurt you obviously human beings we’ve been doing
that for millennia that’s not gonna hurt you to try that for a month it doesn’t
work move on to something else try vegan for a month see what that does
there’s enough people who’ve done that enough times that’s not a dangerous
proposition and so if you were going to if if somebody wanted to do an nf1
protocol which I am so into and that’s really become my obsession with dealing
with Lisa’s illness and realizing that all the literature in the world like
it’ll take you down a path that maybe works for some distribution of the bell
curve but when you get down to that one individual person different things react
differently but doing an N of one well is actually pretty difficult so what do
you suggest do you strip people down to say all the way down to a carnivore diet
then you build back in or do you taper them down slowly to pull
them off of sugar like what what is your end of one protocol look like yeah most
people start out with just eliminating the obvious culprits and so we are will
get rid of all sugars even organic locally sourced honey and agave nectar
that’s organic will you know and people think well that’s got to be good right
no that’s pure sugar and so we get rid of all sugars that’s step one and then
we get rid of all grains that’s step two and then step three is to get rid of all
vegetable oils and so for most people with olive oil well not olive oil is
good it’s naturally oily right you don’t have to chemically Express the oil but
more like seed oils like canola like soy being the the oils that have to go to
the chemical factory to become oil and so usually almost always those three
steps are gonna make people feel better they’re gonna feel better and that
feeling better than you felt in years that’s motivation to go okay now I’m
really I’m feeling great I want to feel even better what’s the next step and
then that would vary for different people depending on what conditions they
had and where they’re from in the world or their ancestors have lived for the
last hundred thousand years how much they’re willing to give up versus what
kind of compromises they want to make so many variables come into play and that’s
why they call it practice it’s nice I like that even if something is
completely natural like a local organic naturally sourced honey right from the
comb you’re biting into it yourself like why do you have them strip up that I
think a lot of people believe in natural and I believe in natural but what we
have to do is we have to make our diet as ancestrally appropriate as we
possibly can because human beings have been on this planet as homo sapiens
sapiens for about 200,000 250,000 years and in that time we ate lots of certain
foods and you can go back and you can look at the the nitrogen and carbon
dating and you can pretty much figure out what different peoples ate in
different parts of the world and so we know that at no time in history did
people live on 300 grams of carbs a day or 350 grams or even more a day like we
do modern society that never happened the
vast majority of humans on the planet ate lots of fatty meat they would eat
some veggies are on purpose or if they couldn’t get fatty meat and then once a
year they would eat some berries and maybe some fruit depending on what
latitude of the world you lived in right and if you live far enough north or far
enough south you didn’t even eat you didn’t even eat that in the summer just
didn’t grow and then maybe once a year if you lived in the right part of the
world you’d find a honey tree and oh yeah the entire tribe would wear that
tree out right and they would lay around in a sugar coma for three days but that
happened once every year or two that wasn’t an everyday thing but now
we’re trying to tell people you know the powers that be the actual nutrition
authorities are trying to tell people yeah you need to eat 50 grams of
carbohydrates per meal three times a day and then three snacks in between with 10
to 20 grams of carbohydrates in each snack and so I think that’s ancestrally
very inappropriate and that’s what’s going to lead to the to the inflammation
to the the chronically elevated blood glucose the chronically elevated insulin
levels the inflammation in the disease so I think a way into that to get people
to understand how it can cause such a metabolic disconnect is what you say
about milk and I’ve never heard anybody talk is directly about milk as you do so
walk us through how much milk should people be eating why or why not
and so you have to understand my my context I grew up being a milk baby when
I was playing three sports in high school I would drink a gallon of milk a
day okay because I was taught that that’ll make you strong that’ll make you
a better an athlete right and of course it was 2% milk because I didn’t need too
much saturated fat that’s all my my grandmother would buy for me and so this
comes from a guy that used to live on milk that I still love milk but I have
immediate symptoms now being a zone inflamed as I am now if I had a glass of
milk immediately I start to have the throat clearing in the heartburn and
after several days the dandruff and the and the acne everything would start to
come back and I’ve actually experimented with that it’s like yeah definitely I
don’t need to drink milk and so there are three macronutrients in milk there’s
the saturated fat there there’s the proteins and then
there’s the sugar right the lactose and so milk its primary purpose is to take a
newborn helpless mammal and help it gain weight and grow as quickly as possible
that’s the purpose of milk it’s not to help you lose weight as we’ve been told
it’s not to help you make muscles though it’s it is to help you gain weight as
quickly as possible for that particular species right and so
the proteins for many many people are inflammatory you’ve either a little bit
or substantial amount and so you get this inflammation because you’re
drinking a protein that’s not really the protein that that’s made for human
beings and then you have the saturated fat which we’ve all been taught to fear
but which in the end which is going to turn out to be the thing you need to
worry about the least that’s actually the good part of milk and so I still use
dairy in my diet but I only use full fat cheese butter ghee maybe a little heavy
cream and the my logic for that is is that all of the lactose has been removed
from a full fat cheese because the microbe that turned it from milk to
cheese ate up all the sugar that’s what it was after and so it but then in the
process it also denatures the protein so it changes the physical shape of the the
protein and making it much less inflammatory and then of course it’s
full fat so I’ve got all that good saturated fat which is which is good for
me and so that’s why I think full fat dairy
nothing less fatty than heavy cream is probably not that bad for most people
but you mentioned the bell curve earlier and there is a distribution out on the
tail who can’t even drink heavy cream there’s still too much inflammatory
protein even in heavy cream for them yeah the the inflammation that’s really
interesting to me and it seems like a preponderance of the stuff that you talk
about is really designed to lower inflammation one I’d like to know why
so much the standard American diet causes inflammation like at a cellular
level what’s going on and then to what are some like quick biomarkers that
people should be working with their doctor to track to see if they’re
trending in the right direction so anytime you feed an animal
something that’s not a part of its natural diet it’s going to get sick it’s
going to get inflammation it’s it’s gonna it’s going to not feel good it’s
not a not going to perform as well and that that’s true for dogs that’s true
for horses that’s true for humans and so veterinary sciences is much advanced
over medical science if you have a sick dog and you go to the vet one of the
very first things he’s going to ask you is what have you been feeding this dog
right because that matters that’s a big deal and so if you’ve been feeding this
dog a vegan diet that’s what’s wrong with the dogs
stop feeding him something that he’s not supposed to eat and the same holds true
for humans only for the last few hundred years have we been eating grains in the
quantity that we eat now and you know we’ve been cultivating grains for 10 or
12,000 years but just because we were cultivating grain 10,000 years ago
doesn’t mean we were having 11 servings a day of grain back then like we’re
supposed to have now right according to the official guidelines and then also
some experts would argue that the grain we have today is not the same grain of a
thousand years ago or 5,000 years ago that it’s it’s not necessary even if it
hasn’t been genetically modified it’s been crossbred enough times that it’s
essentially a different species of grain and so we just haven’t had enough
evolutionary time to adapt to it and to get used to it let’s put a let’s dig
deeper on that so what would we be crossbreeding for obviously palatability
it would be one but so is it increasingly high in gluten like what is
it that we’re putting into it that makes it hyper palatable that becomes this
increasing problem I think there’s there’s a much higher percentage of
gluten and I think there are there several other inflammatory proteins that
are in much higher concentrations now than they were hundreds of years ago and
then back you know a thousand years ago you ground your wheat between two big
rocks and so it was it was barely processed and now we grind it up into
the finest powder imaginable which makes it hyper palatable it makes it easy to
eat a lot of it and you don’t have to really do any work to eat it and then if
it is inflammatory for your system which i think it is for most humans
the surface area contacted by the tiny particles of wheat is much much greater
than the surface area that would be contacted internally with the more
coarse ground wheat of the past that’s interesting and are you talking about
that from a permeability standpoint yeah well yeah absolutely and so much of
grain isn’t is insoluble fiber right you can’t digest it at all your bacteria
might might use some of it in the in the large bowel but as far as you digesting
a lot of it you can’t right and so but when you grind it up into the finest
powder imaginable then your body’s more able to assimilate even more of it and
you wind up with more of an inflammatory shock because you’re able to absorb more
of it it’s really interesting I want to go back to what you said about
veterinarian medicine being a head of human medicine and that they lead with
what are you eating why do you think that’s the case it’s actually really
interesting to me because it makes good sense but usually he’s a standalone guy
he doesn’t have a bevy of specialist specialists you know at the hospital vet
hospitals and so he has to kind of think holistically about the animal and
globally about the animal he can’t ignore their diets because you know most
farmers are not gonna tolerate putting their their dog or their horse no matter
what a thoroughbred they are on five six seven eight nine ten twenty for
prescription medications and so a vet’s job is to fix the animal not medicate
the animal and so I think that they just they come at it from a different
perspective and therefore they give different results I think it conspiracy
theorists ye which is not my normal bent but how much of this the problem in the
standard American diet is a problem of systems that’s maybe a weird word but I
mean in that you’ve got you said their job is to fix the animal not medicate
the animal how much in what’s happening in humans is that we are on a intention
or otherwise a system of medicating people and then one thing you said about
Ancel keys that I found really really interesting was that he was a bully and
that he would actually if people challenged him he would shut them down
and so people stopped challenging him because it would end up damaging their
career and have accidentally created this massive
knock-on effect of nobody challenging the thinking yeah so how much of what
we’re dealing with now is related to a bunch of weird sort of systemic things
well it really is kind of the perfect storm of Ancel keys research and you
know he wasn’t an MD he wasn’t no he was not a medical doctor at all but he did
this huge research study in which he took he collected data from 22 countries
as you probably know but he only published the data from seven countries
and that’s why it’s called the seven country study but he just cherry picked
the data because he he believed in a vegetable heavy diet he believed that
eating animal products was inherently either bad or unhealthy and so since his
research was not really peer-reviewed in any meaningful way since it wasn’t
double-blinded since it wasn’t randomized his bias slipped right into
the research and that’s one of the system things that is is our our current
nutritional research is terrible because of those very things most of the studies
are observational in nature most of them use a food frequency questionnaire and
they’ll ask you questions like how many cups of ribs have you eaten in the last
three months or how many pounds of broccoli have you eaten in the last
three months who could possibly answer that in any meaningful way and so you
and so if the researcher has a bias it’s it’s human nature it’s not a conspiracy
it’s just human nature if you believe something and there’s nobody looking
over your shoulder your belief is gonna seep into your work but the problem is
is that a lot of the schools of nutrition and a lot of the medical
schools still cite that research routinely as gospel and so until enough
people know better than that and stop doing that that research with his
inherent bias is going to keep slipping into the medical recommendations and
that’s just one of the many systems that that I think you’re broken that have to
be fixed before we can be a healthy people again and what is fixed to look
like so what did you do to yourself what do you teach your patients so you got to
get rid of all the sugars you got to get rid of all the grains you got to get rid
of all the veg oils with the seed oils and then for
some people that’s it that’s all they need at that point their body the
inflammation gets better their markers and what markers are correct so you
there’s a there’s a bevy of them and different experts kind of have their own
favourites but you could look at a Ruth’s retire through site sedimentation
rate you could look at a CRP which you can have a high sensitivity or cardiac
or just a regular CRP which is C reactive protein you can look at
homocysteine levels you can look at ferritin levels you can look at all
these different markers and and the problem is is we haven’t done this
enough for long enough to really know which ones are the very best right some
people look at fibrinogen there are all these other markers that were still kind
of experimenting with because everybody’s been so busy prescribing
pills they haven’t been looking at hey what’s the best marker for inflammation
so I can know I’m having a meaningful effect on this human but most people
when they do step one two and three and then start playing around with some of
the other steps they can do they feel so much better that they don’t care what
the labs say they’re like no dude I haven’t felt this great in ten years and
that’s not to say you never can have sugar or grains or you know any kind of
oil again but that needs to be a rare treat just like it was 50,000 years ago
it but if you do that every single day with snacks in between you’re gonna
suffer mmm what do you think about constant glucose monitoring I think it’s
I think you I think that’s gonna turn the tide on a lot of the recommendations
that endocrinologist give their patients it’s gonna turn the tide on the the the
recommendations and advice that registers dieticians give their patients
because currently patients will check their blood sugar once or twice a day
and so I was pre-diabetic my a once II was six I was moving that way right but
if you checked a fasting blood sugar on me back then
it would’ve been normal and so unless you chancing why would your fasting be
no I hadn’t eaten overnight and so my blood sugar would come back down so
you’re saying you didn’t have a physiological metabolic problem you had
a purely diet based problem almost all of mine was was just died it’s
self-inflicted dietary damage right and so there are millions of pre-diabetics
living their life in the United States today who have no idea because once a
year their doctor checked they only check the only marker of glucose and
insulin metabolism that he’ll check is a fasting blood sugar and if that’s all
you check your blind and so when you check a fasting blood sugar and it’s
ninety all you know is that that moment in time this person’s blood Sugar’s
normal that’s literally all that tells you it doesn’t tell you anything about
the past it doesn’t tell you about their average but when you check an a1c and
7.4 oh my god you’re a diabetic and if I hadn’t checked that I wouldn’t see I
would have no damn idea and I would have said all everything looks great mr. bill
you I’ll see you next year and that happens every single day in doctors
offices across the country and across the world
we check a fasting blood sugar it’s normal or it’s maybe a little bit high
right a few points out not a big deal we’ll watch it we’ll check it again next
year and then you get to enjoy another year of damage being done to every
tissue organ and cell of your body because any time your blood Sugar’s high
you’re doing permanent damage that cannot be taken back explain that to me
so here’s why I think that people gravitate towards cholesterol they have
this picture of there are pipes in my body and those pipes get clogged and get
clogged with cholesterol don’t eat cholesterol right right and that’s like
the visual representation is so easy yeah so why is elevated blood sugar
problem what damage is it doing to the tissues so your body’s made to run on a
blood sugar from 60 to 99 and if you eat a veritable feast it might get up to 110
115 maybe 120 but that’s about as high as a normal person with normal glucose
metabolism back when I was 20 I could have eaten a dozen donuts and drank half
a gallon of milk which I did on several occasions and my blood sugar an hour
later would have been 110 because back then I was so young and metabolically
healthy my body could take it but if you can grab that glucose out of oh yeah so
I had I had some muscle and so my my insulin level would spike and it would
put all the glucose out of the bloodstream very quickly now that’s not
to say that was healthy it just I was so young and metabolically resilient it
didn’t really do anything why isn’t why would you say that’s not healthy then
what is is it an insulin problem the heart of
your pancreas has to work the higher your insulin level is and so we know for
without doubt that chronically high glucose levels in the blood damage every
tissue every organ in your body but it looks like that chronically high insulin
level also does damage and there were damage to look like like I don’t so I’ve
heard the analogy that having too high blood glucose you’re literally burning
the tissues but it’s one of those like fire on national TV I wouldn’t want to
repeat that something really no I didn’t mean but it’s actually much more
complicated than that but that’s a pretty good analogy but what happens is
all every tissue in your body is fed by tiny blood vessels right called
arterioles and then down into the capillary level and when the blood sugar
gets high it causes inflammation and then the chronically high insulin as
well is going to inflame those it’s going to damage those and they’ll start
to close off and so if you close off one little tiny capillary in your retina you
won’t be able to tell that at all but if you close off one a day within 20 years
you’re gonna be going to the docks and dock I can’t I don’t know something’s
wrong with my eyes I can’t see good bye and so you’ve got 20 years of damage
it’s too late at that point but the tiny blood vessels that’s what’s
being damaged and so when you’re when your retina or when you’re bright if a
part of your brain or when your penis loses its good blood supply it stops
working and that’s a problem and so for years we were taught that you know if
you’re type 2 diabetic you’re just not making enough insulin turns out that’s
complete rubbish because we can check a lab called a c-peptide which tells me
exactly how much insulin your pancreas is producing when your pancreas when the
beta cells in your pancreas make insulin they make a pre pro insulin which is 2
insulins and a c-peptide stuff together and then when you excrete that the
c-peptide breaks off and we currently say it doesn’t do anything but think
about that that’s ridiculous it absolutely does thinks what we should
be saying is we don’t know what that does yet but it does something but
insulin is constantly fluctuating in your system and so you can’t check just
a spot insulin because if you’ve just eaten it
you haven’t eaten all those things if you’re in distress if you’re sick that
all those things affect your insulin levels and so checking just a spot
insulin doesn’t really give you much information but I can your c-peptide
levels stay pretty constant in your blood around the clock and so when I
check a spot c-peptide and it’s elevated that tells me without
doubt your pancreas is having to work too hard to make insulin to put the
blood sugar out of this bloodstream right and so where does it put it pushes
it out of the serum out of the bloodstream into the cells and so what
we used to say is oh the the locking key mechanism of the insulin somehow it’s
gummed up your insulin can’t let the blood sugar into the cell but Jason Fung
a nephrologist said this very elegantly basically the cells are already full of
sugar because of the orange juice and pancakes and bowl of fruit you have for
breakfast right and so then when you come along and you have lunch you know
two two sandwiches four slices of whole wheat bread now you’ve got all this more
glucose your insulin level spikes even more trying to push it into the cells
the cells don’t have any room they’re full of glucose and so your blood sugar
starts to stay high and that’s the beginning of pre-diabetes and type 2
diabetes that’s really interesting is it true that cells will actually reduce the
number of insulin receptors that they have to begin basically saying a mole
and eventually they will kind of become insulin resistant but that is a start
out that way and so like when I was 20 I could eat that dozen donuts and I a it
would just push it all into the cells even though that wasn’t good for the
cells it still kept my blood sugar down it’s really interesting and I am I
literally have no idea the answer this question but it’s putting the glucose
into the cells because the cell is simply storing it or because the cell
can actually use it as well right then in there both yeah that’s interesting
which is why I’m guessing correct me if I’m wrong that exercising can actually
wildly impacts or your likelihood of becoming diabetic are having diabetics
and that’s exactly right and then actually actually doing some exercise
before you eat can open the muscles and they can accept much more of the glucose
out of your bloodstream and so a lot of people use that as a hack if they know
they’re going to grandmother’s house or going to the buffet the
work out right before they go or they’ll do something that Tim Ferriss talks
about in his book the 4-hour body they’ll go to the bathroom and they’ll
do 20 50 100 bathroom stall squats and that opens up all your muscles and then
you can pretty much eat whatever you want to I’m not recommending that by the
way but that is that is a useful hack for some people if you know that you’re
gonna be in a social situation where you’re gonna have to eat are you gonna
hurt granny’s feelings or you know you’re gonna look weird if you’re just
standing there drinking water well everybody else has a buffet plate you
can sneak off to the bathroom and do your stall squats and then you you’re
not gonna spike your blood sugar and therefore you’re not going to spike your
insulin because the muscles are ready for that glucose that’s really really
interesting what are some of the biggest myths that are still being perpetuated
today that really piss you off well there’s a list of them so where do you
want to start what subject let’s start with vitamin D yeah a sun exposure
specifically right and so there’s the vitamin D issue with with breastfeeding
moms that then that’s one of the very first lies and so let’s talk about okay
I’m I’m an intern I’ve just graduated med school I’m an intern I’m on my
obstetrics rotation and so the the chief resident who’s in his third year of
residency would say okay don’t forget to write the vitamin D drops for the
breastfeeding babies and I’m like what are you talking about he’s like well
humans don’t make vitamin D in their breast milk and so immediately that
struck me I’m like okay so for the last 200,000 years we’ve not became extinct
because of rickets because human mothers don’t produce vitamin D in their breast
milk what and that was a media huge red faggot flag for me but I didn’t have
time to research it at the time so I filed that away somewhere and then later
after I just started my practice I researched that I looked into it and
they found that if you give a breastfeeding mother 6060 400
international units of vitamin D a day guess what she does she makes all the
vitamin D in her breast milk that her baby needs and so if the mothers
deficient in vitamin D then she doesn’t produce vitamin D in her breast man
Wow but if you if she’s getting the vitamin D that she would have gotten a
hundred thousand years ago from being out outside all day and for meeting all
kinds of grass-fed fats you know fatty meat the yolks from eggs any fat that
she could get her hands on brains then she would be getting all this vitamin D
and she would produce more than enough vitamin D for her baby and so absolutely
women can make vitamin D in their breast milk if they are not deficient in
vitamin D themselves which women are capable of doing if you’ll feed them the
ancestrally appropriate human diet and let them go playing the Sun yeah let’s
talk about the Sun so people obviously believe that the Sun causes skin cancer
is a lot of interesting research coming out now talking about how if you double
apply sunscreen you’re more likely to get skin cancer than if you only apply
it once what what’s your thinking around the sunscreen and skin cancer yeah the
research about that that that proves that sun exposure increases your risk of
skin cancer is just atrocious and then when you think about this some of the
research is done on donated foreskins so when we circumcise a baby that they
would collect the foreskins and then they would do in vitro research on the
foreskin skin with ultraviolet light and then they would make they would make
recommendations for you as an adult human because you know foreskin doesn’t
get a lot of Sun anyway and then you’re making global recommendations based on
that kind of research that’s the kind of research that we get this from but then
when you think about this topic common sense wise and ancestrally we would be
extinct as a species if sun exposure cause skin cancer and melanoma had
rights that we’re currently having your skin is built of something it’s built of
what you’ve eaten over the last nine to twelve months that’s what your skin is
made of right now is what you ate over the last year and so if you’ve eaten
crap for the last year you want to bet me that you’re at increased risk of skin
cancer sure you are then there’s also this thing called diagnosis drift that I
talk about in the book as well when you take off a non-cancerous skin lesion you
get paid about this as you get paid for an office visit but
if it’s precancerous you get paid about three times that much if it’s cancerous
you get paid anywhere from 10 to a hundred times as much to remove that
guess who diagnoses it the doctor that’s removing it now we’ve got human nature
at play again right and so in so it’s called diagnosis
drift if you get paid more for it to be a more dangerous lesion than it’s human
nature guess what it’s going to be a more dangerous lesion more often and so
a lot of the increased cancer rate is diagnosis drift a lot of it is from our
terrible diet that we’re trying to build skin out of that’s really interesting so
what do you think is happening at the cellular level based on what I’m eating
that would cause that particular cell to become cancerous like as it damaged fats
like what so every cell membrane in your body has to have cholesterol to function
properly and so when we tell everybody you got to eat less cholesterol and I’m
gonna put you on this pill to lower your cholesterol even lower and I won’t you
eat lots of whole grains and I want you to use canola oil because if you use
bacon grease that’s gonna give you a heart attack right and so when you’re
using basically what amounts to artificial fat instead of real fats
you’re building inferior cell membranes and so every cell in your body is an
increased risk of something bad and in the skin that could wind up being eczema
can wind up being psoriasis it can wind up being one of the skin cancers oh that
yeah that is crazy you are what you eat is such a powerful and it sounds like a
truism but it is it’s absolutely a fact let’s talk about a true carnivore diet
first of all what made you want to go that far and then what does a carnivore
diet look like is it just i eat beef or is it organ meats and all that stuff
so I had I had kind of come from standard American diet to primal paleo
to low carb high healthy fat taquito and on keto I was eating a ton of fatty meat
and a little bit of vegetables and and I enjoy green vegetables but then I kept
you know I’m always researching I’m always
looking and studying and I saw this excellent lecture by dr. Michael EADS
he was talking about Neanderthals and what they ate and Neanderthals were were
exclusively carnivore unless they couldn’t get meat and then they would
eat whatever of course but if they could get fatty meat that’s all they ate they
didn’t eat anything else and about that same time Nisha and I my wife we checked
our 23andme data and when he got it back I had more than and earth all DNA than
97% of the population oh and so it was just kind of fortuitous that both those
things happened at the same time and I was like you normally try for a month
what could it hurt and so at the end of that month I felt so much better I’d
lost another 4 pounds people were saying what do you you look better you’ve lost
weight like they can see the the even-even from quito to carnivore my
inflammation was even better I felt better I used to have terrible heartburn
every day every day even with paleo Primal when I
went keto was about 80% better but then when a carnivore I have zero heartburn
ever break down carnivore for me are you eating chicken I don’t eat much chicken
my carnivore is lots of fatty red meat mostly beef I I eat eggs mostly the
yolks I’ll leave butter or ghee some full fat
cheese salt pepper and some spices that’s that’s the the entirety of my
diet and that may sound boring but I have yet to sit down and go damn it
another ribeye it just doesn’t happen now for me that sounds amazing right
you’re gonna die of heart attack right right right and so I my cholesterol
currently is 350 my LDL oster all is 250 and I’m not worried about those at all
because more and more the research that’s been shelved and put in the
basements and put in the attics about lipid and you know cholesterol and LDL
now that all the research is becoming available and people are doing review
articles and looking at all the data it actually looks like the higher your
total cholesterol is the longer you live and so the entire model has been upside
down this entire time so I’m not worried about
total cholesterol or my LDL at all but because yes my HDL is very high which is
my good protective cholesterol my triglycerides are very low my hemoglobin
a1c or my 3-month blood sugar average is the lowest it’s been since I’ve been
checking it all my inflammatory markers are back to normal I feel great
so tell me where’s the risk in that okay that’s super interesting walk me through
what parts of the the cholesterol numbers people should be caring about
not caring about because so in my own life I went through a period that lasted
probably for about two and a half years where I was essentially doing rabbit
starvation right so I was eating basically chicken breast broccoli
nothing on it no oil nothing I know amazing I felt terrible exactly
absolutely horrifying right but damn I was lean you know and it was amazing but
yeah I was a joint pain just was like in pure insanity yeah and then I because I
heard that ketogenic spa see had some cancer prevention stuff I tried it and
it was like it was like taking a drug it was so anti-inflammatory on my joints
that I was like well I’m never going back to rabid starvation
that was crazy right but my cholesterol levels were so low when I was doing the
rabbit starvation and I thought that was a good thing that I was super amped I
felt bulletproof thought I was gonna live forever then when I started doing
ketogenic s– my numbers went significantly up and my doctor was like
we have to get you on Lipitor and I was like you must be joking
I’ve got two guns Tom I’ve got a 12-gauge shotgun and I’ve got a BB gun
you’re gonna get shot with one of them which one do you pick take to be behind
if I die that’s it and that’s that makes good sense
and so my contention is is that an elevated a1c an elevated c-peptide
which tells me your blood sugar and serum insulin levels are always high a
very low HDL in a very high triglyceride level those four
test those that’s the shotgun if your LDL is is 250 300 that might might be a
BB gun but the the even the research on levels that high is completely
inconclusive if your doctor says oh you have a high total cholesterol you need
to be on lipitor you need to find a new doctor because he’s at least 10 years
behind in his reading okay now if he talks about LDL then he’s at least
current but still when you look at the research and its totality it’s not a
risk factor it might be a BB gun but it’s not the shotgun that that high
blood sugar high insulin low HDL and high triglycerides are that’s the
shotgun that’s gonna kill you mmm it’s a really interesting so talk about salt
blood pressure seems to be a lot of misunderstanding around salt yeah and so
human beings and all mammals really love salt and crave salt but in human beings
we consider this a character flaw if you if you like salt and actually eat it
something wrong with you you’re not you’re not very bright or you just don’t
care about your health but what about the deer in the wild that
will walk four miles to lick a certain mud or a certain rock that has a high
salt content are they are they gluttons as well or they just don’t care about
their health I doubt that’s true I think they’re doing that for their health the
blood of mammals is very salty okay if you if you if I check a basic metabolic
panel on you your sodium level is going to be one one thirty five your chloride
level is going to be 110 right your magnesium which we all want to talk
about is going to be two point five and your potassium that we all want to talk
about is going to be three you see the difference in those levels your blood is
meant to be very very salty if you have normal kidney function then you
effectively can’t overdose on salt your kidneys can excrete so much sodium and
chloride that it’s ridiculous okay your kidneys are not gonna let you keep too
much salt in your body even the research in people with with late end-stage heart
failure they do worse on a salt restricted diet and you think that’s the
very people you say should really restricting their salt and doctors tell
them to do that every day but when you actually look at the research they do
worse on a low salt diet than a normal salt diet if you start to mess with the
salt and try to lower that immediately your cell membranes stop functioning
properly but cause the sodium and the chloride are supremely important for
proper cell function if you are limiting your salt you’re limiting your
performance and there are actually athletes who instead of carb loading
they’ll salt load before they workout but and it increases their their
endurance and their strength by 10 15 % I’ve never heard them do it speak really
interesting I’m a long time salt junkie I used to eat rock salt
if you’ve ever had that I’m guessing where you grew up you have sure you see
rock salt all getting nosebleeds there’s just something about salt one more thing
what do you think the carnivore diet is doing to your microbiome like oh there
is there anything to think through there in terms of the microbiota that are
feeding off of greens and I think that’s a huge hugely important question I think
the the gut microbiome is a completely unknown entity but what I do know is
that the multiple carnivores that I correspond with have no problem in the
bathroom there’s no problem with constipation with diarrhea everything
works like a charm there’s no problem with that and so all their markers are
good and so we go back to that again they feel great and they look great in
the lab so where’s the problem right now I’m not at all discounting the gut
microbiota I think it’s a huge deal and so I think that probably in starvation
situations when we’re having to live on you know grass and and and grains and
stuff I think that we can use the gut microbiome to help make fatty acids and
to help make other nutrients but when you’re feeding the body wood it needs
which is mostly fatty meat and maybe a little bit of edge you don’t even really
need the gut bacteria to do that work for you because you got it very very
interesting before I asked my last question tell these guys where they can
find you online so I do most of my work on YouTube I
have a few YouTube videos you can check out if you just search dr. ken berry
you’ll find me and then I do a lot of work on Facebook and Instagram the same
search ought to turn me up I love it alright my last question what’s the one
thing that people can do that will have the biggest impact on their health the
one thing you can do is to realize that you are literally made of what you eat
and then to go back in time mentally and think what did we 10,000 years ago what
do you eat a hundred thousand years ago because your DNA has not changed at all
since then you are the same creature that used to roam the Savannah one
hundred thousand years ago you are the same genetic animal you have to eat the
food that they ate or you will suffer and when you start eating processed
grains and processed sugars and processed vegetable oils at the amounts
that we currently eat that’s going to lead to nothing but chronic disease
amazing thank you so much waiting on the show that was incredible all right all
right guys the most fascinating thing about this man is he is blunt as all
hell when you dive in his world you’re gonna realize very quickly that he’s not
pulling punches he wants people to question everything he wants you being
your own advocate for your health diving in he talks a lot about building a
bottom-up approaches looking at what’s going on in the world seeing how people
are reacting seeing what people are talking about in the age of the Internet
do not wait for the medical establishment to hand you something down
chances are that it’s outdated or it was influenced by something else so really
being a part of figuring things out on your own and researching and learning
that stuff is the way to go and what I love about him and it’s wives one of the
very first things we talked about is never afraid to admit if he realized he
was wrong about something to say he said many times I used to you know tell
people to do this and and I was wrong about that and I’m really sorry and now
this is my current thinking and anybody that’s willing to evolve their thinking
like that and change the way that they approach something that’s somebody that
I feel that I can trust because they’re not hemmed in by their own Dogma by the
things that they’ve said which i think is a major trap so he is a very fresh
voice in the space I encourage you guys to go hear what he has to say check it
out and like he would do with anybody else by all means question what he’s
saying I think he’s questioning what he’s saying so he
can really build a robust model that actually works in the real world and
that’s why I’m so intrigued all right if you haven’t already be sure to subscribe
and until next time my friends be legendary take care thank you sir hi
amazing hey impactive Asst I hope you loved that
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Randall Smitham